30

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Nottingham
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30

Postby Nottingham » Sun Dec 06, 2015 10:39 pm

This is an old discussion, but is it time to revisit it? As the days and weeks and moths and years pass, the world moves on and very few things remain the same.

Is it time to raise the level cap to 30, to open it up and let both the xp and the levels roll onward? How many 20th level rangers are there out there that would give up their left testicle for a chance at Epic Two Weapon Fighting and Bane of Enemies? How many retired players would return if word got out that levels 21-30 were now open?

And if players returned and became more active, would not builders feel the uncontrollable urge to add new content for the epic level play, even if it was a portal to the abyss or some unusual plane where only epic players could enter. Even without quests, I bet most players would be happy to grind away with 10-20 xp per kill if they knew that level 21 was suddenly open.

I know there has been a server philosophy about the 1-20 level cap, but do the same reasons apply that guided that notion, or have they ceased to exist? And if the reasons do exist, do they remain as relevant as they once were?

As Machiavelli once wrote, “…a prudent ruler ought not to keep faith when by so doing it would be against his interest, and when the reasons which made him bind himself no longer exist.”

Is it time for a revival? And right before Christmas, when it is cold out and dark and many players have more time to game? If you build it, they will come.

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Wired
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Re: 30

Postby Wired » Thu Dec 10, 2015 3:21 am

We do appreciate fresh thinking, it leads to positive change.

HOWEVER, as 3.5E (on which this game is based) has waxed to 4e and now 5e (which diablo-esque, elder-scrolls-system-in-a-petri-dish machinations a few of us have been attempting to grind through as an experiment/fun), it does seem less likely we'll break the level 20 cap.

Level 20 is pretty bad-*** in this world... If you want to take on Carcerum or Bharham, becomes more about the NUMBER and DIVERSITY of level 20s in your group, as opposed to anybody being able to solo those quests with one char.
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Nottingham
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Re: 30

Postby Nottingham » Fri Dec 23, 2016 2:32 am

Level 20 might be very bad-***, but it nice to have something to fight for, and from a psychological standpoint, reaching the max level available often takes the fight out of a player.

Even opening up the xp limit so that the lowest ELC character could reach 20 would be awesome.

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Peregrinus
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Re: 30

Postby Peregrinus » Fri Dec 23, 2016 3:02 am

ECL characters are at level 20. That's what the Level Adjustment means. If you took off the XP cap ECL races would end up as equivalent of level 21, 22, 23 level characters, while non-ECL ones would be stuck at 20. ECL races, especially ones with innate SR, are already quite powerful and effective against pretty much everything on Dasaria.
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Nottingham
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Re: 30

Postby Nottingham » Fri Dec 23, 2016 5:35 am

Yes, I do understand how the ELC races work. This idea was my push toward a middle ground, a compromise, in effect upping the level cap to 23, yet allowing developers save face with the focus on opening the door for ECL races to reach the magic number of 20, thus giving all players something more to play for.

And yes, we can have much discussion on the merits of role playing maxed out characters, but reaching the next level is what creates a far greater obsession to play.

I have noticed my play exponentially decline as I approach level 20. I am already a few levels ahead of my friends, so that pulls me back, and I have slowed down my play to saver that last level, so that holds me back. And I know this is not just me. Or maybe it is, for the sad truth is that NWN2 is aging exponentially now, and has been for a while.

Anyway, there is an excitement that comes with striving toward another level. How many characters, for all practical purposes, become retired after reaching level 20? And we all know that encountering the game world solo at level 20, or 23 even, would still offer lots of challenges. So 23 is a far cry from 30, and it seem like a possible middle ground, a compromise, or at least an idea worthy of discussion.

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Domina
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Re: 30

Postby Domina » Fri Dec 23, 2016 10:18 am

*peeks in*

The level cap only has an effect against one's gameplay if they are really looking to grind for more power, but I feel that the end game is enriched by the hunt for loot and gear. There ARE +4 items hidden about in the deepest depths of some dungeons and that for me is the most intriguing part of a post-leveling game. Games like Final Fantasy cap at 50 or 99 and from there have the player test their builds with exotic hunts and boss fights.

Even occasionally, DMs will reward players with exotic loot.

tl;dr
Look for the deeper lore and grind goodies in the post game. That, for me, is where the adventure is at. I'd love for more loot to be placed in the game so i can go find it. Things like craft scroll necklace has been super fun to play and RP with!
Goodies with anti-(insert creature here) could be fun also!

Anyways, loot grind is fun! Ask someone to help out on the forum and we'll do some of those grinds at some times. We still read the forums, so just shake the nest~
The night is far spent, the day is at hand;
Let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us wear the armor of light.
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Sunset Fallow
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Re: 30

Postby Sunset Fallow » Sat Dec 24, 2016 6:20 pm

I’ve thought about this and written about it on another site long ago. I do believe that advancement or the opportunity for advancement is integral to the game, even more so when you may have to spend much of your time solo as in when there are fewer players around.

Advancement doesn’t necessarily mean increased levels, although that is the most commonly associated path. Advancement can come from better gear, increased abilities such as crafting, increased social standing, more gold or higher standings/rank within an informal group or official organization. But many of these alternate paths are meaningless without other players or are simply not available without those players or a DM.

In fact, the loss of a player base may be attributable in some instances to the frustration and lack of interest some players feel upon reaching a particular level and not have the ability to attain further goals.

My first experience with a NWN2 PW was a place with a level 20 cap that remained very ‘alive’ with a single DM and a core of 6 to 8 players with others who would stop by and several others who were even more transient. The motivation for play came in the form of DM (and player) created storylines that involved every player who wanted to participate and ‘advancement’ as an incentive to those player who did participate in the form of better gear, involvement in very intriguing RP story sidelines, access to semi-restricted areas, rare crafting recipes (+3 or higher since at that site +2 was the highest attainable through normal means), individual housing and a myriad of other perks that did not involve increased level.

The point is that it gave the player a sense that they had a goal, some attainable method of increasing the perceived value and performance of their character. I think without that perception that there is something more, some lofty peak no matter the risk…they (the players) don’t feel that participation is meaningful. And finally, even the shiniest bauble needs an audience or its luster is dulled.

As far as the ECL characters go. I won’t play one on this site.

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Re: 30

Postby Nottingham » Sat Feb 18, 2017 10:07 pm

Regardless of the role-play value after reaching a max level, I still find myself playing less and less the closer I get to reaching. My highest character is about 12K away. I am currently saving the xp gains for night when my real world friends are on with me. I bet this decline in play will be even more pronounced when my Tiefling reaches level 19. Even if leveling up seems petty to some, the endorphin rush, or the tenacious sometimes grinding ambition to reach a goal is what make the gears keep moving on a fantasy gaming world. Maybe it like the monk who does not engage in world affairs because they all seem petty to him. Ambition, competition, desire remain the spice of life. Without the passion there is no life.


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